Dinah: Welcome to Farm to School Northeast, a podcast where we explore the creative ways that local food is getting into school cafeterias and how food system education is playing out in classrooms and school gardens across the Northeast. Today, we have a chance to talk with Brad Lopes, education and public program manager at the Aquinnah Cultural Center and the education manager of the Wampanoag Tribe of Gayhead Aquinnah and Emily Armstrong, Education Director of Island Grown Initiative. Brad and Emily will speak about the collaboration between Island Grown and the Aquinnah Cultural Center to promote tribal food sovereignty through the lens of curricular instruction and some best practices for engaging in local food sustainability and food sovereignty work in schools. Welcome, Brad and Emily.

Emily: Thanks for having us.

Brad: Thank you for having us. It's wonderful to be here.

Dinah: Can you introduce yourself to the listeners and tell us a little bit about the organizations that you two represent?

Brad: Yeah. Emily, do you want to kick it off?

Emily: Hi, I'm Emily Armstrong and I am the education director at Island Grown Initiative. We are a nonprofit on Martha's Vineyard. We work within the food system from growing food to sourcing it, preparing it, distributing it, and transforming food waste back into soil. The foundation of this system is our Farm to School program, which teaches kids 2 through 18 how to grow, prepare, and enjoy nourishing food. We are in our 19th school year of delivering farm to school education on the island, and Island Grown Initiative is about to celebrate its 20th birthday.

Brad: So my name is Brad Lopes, Natasus Bradlopes, Natomas Aquinatinope. So my name is Brad Lopes, like I've already said, and I come from Aquinnah here on Martha’s Vineyard, where we've lived for over 12,000 years, Swampanak people. I have two major roles. I'm the education and public program manager for the Aquinnah Cultural Center, which we are a small nonprofit museum that is led by Wampanoag folks from our community. So our board are mostly elders, community members, and our staff are mostly from our tribe. And so what we do there, our goal, our mission is really to help preserve Wampanoag history, culture, and stories, but also to educate and bring that forward to the next couple of generations. So we do a lot of internal programming for the community as well as external programming. We're working with non-native organizations, entities, schools, things like that. And then in my full-time role, I am the education manager at the Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head Aquinnah, my tribe here in Aquinnah. And our goal is to largely support really the education of all of our citizens. And this comes in a variety of forms, programs, scholarships, all of these different kinds of things. And our education department conducts several of these programs and really just tries to provide support wherever we can for our tribal citizenry. So both my paths ultimately fall into education and ultimately education's tied back to those critical things like food and food sovereignty as well.

Dinah: Brad and Emily, why is food sovereignty such an important thing?

Brad: I think when I think of why food sovereignty is important and why it's a really critically necessary topic for us to be talking about is for many people, not just indigenous people, I think that there is a lack of control over food sources, over really what we're able to put on our table for our family. And I think that since probably the Industrial Revolution, there's been a further disconnect from where you're getting your food. And I think it's really important that we're able to take care of ourselves and our communities. And I think about our ancestors, how have we been able to stay here for thousands of years? It's through those practices of, again, sustainability, of food sovereignty, of those practices of being self-sufficient. That's the word I was looking for. And I think of also if we hyper-focus on indigenous people in this case, I think it's critically important because that is one of the areas that through the process of land encroachment, land theft, through the process of legal policies and social practices occurring, tribal nations have lost upwards of 99% of our homelands. And so you have to think, how do you provide food if you do not have places to grow it? If you do not have places to hunt, fish, gather, all of these different things. And again, but I think it's something to say that when we talk about colonialism, that was one of the intentions, right? Is to also limit, change, control food sources. So you'll see things that are a part of indigenous cuisine today, like fry bread, that its origins are entirely in that process of government issued food because the food's been limited and the access to those spaces has also been limited. And so I think for us in particular, it ties back to things that are much grander as well. Even a higher presence of food sovereignty in a community is going to lead to more cohesion in the community. So again, it has those impacts that I don't think everyone always sees maybe, but ultimately it ties back too.

Emily: Yeah. And for me, I think about, from the farm to school lens that everyone should have the ability, the knowledge, the access to grow food for themselves. And so what I do in my work is connect with children to get that knowledge to them and then to their families vis-a-vis taking that knowledge home with them. And everyone should have that access. And so a lot of the work that I do is making sure that children have that knowledge to grow food, they know how to prepare food, and enjoying food is a huge part of that as well because everyone should be a part of the food system.

Dinah: So you two collaborated on a broad review of the farm to school material for Island Grown. And I imagine that that collaboration and that lens had a lot to do with food sovereignty and the education around that and other issues. Could you describe the importance of this project and how you went about this review and why? 

Emily: Yeah, this started with a conversation. Brad did a workshop that I attended about best practices for discussing indigenous topics in schools. And I went as an educator and it started a conversation between the two of us about our farm to school curriculum and how we were representing indigenous peoples in our curriculum, how we were handling topics about Wampanoag people more specifically. And we met and talked and from there started to refine what we wanted to do together. And that included some trainings for our staff, lots of resources from Brad, and then this curricular review. And I just sent him everything and we have almost 200 lessons that we've created over the years, a lot of other materials that we've collected from other places as well. And it was a lot of stuff, but I felt like it was important to show what we were teaching in the schools and again, start that conversation about what we could be doing differently in our representation of indigenous people.

Brad: And I think too, when I think of the mission, the goal, the intent of an organization like IGI, again, it's centered in that concept of self-sustainability, of self-sufficiency of being able to have that sense of connection and relationality to food. It's literally being grown right here on the island in that case. And so I think a lot of the way that IGI's curriculum has been shaped is naturally embedded within that concept of food sovereignty. And what my experience was, first of all, it was just a gift to be able to build a relationship and be able to do this and be able to explore the curriculum. I love curriculum. I love just understanding the different ways people were envisioning knowledge and bringing that knowledge down at different points in time. And I think that it reminded me of a classic example of what I just have seen a lot in my career, too, which is nothing about us without us.

I think oftentimes if you don't have us in the room or have us in these conversation spaces like Emily and I have been engaged in, we don't know what we're missing and we don't know what is there, how is it being received, how is it being understood? And I think it's been really special to start to identify those things and find places that ... I think this is always the most exciting for me in the process is being like, there's an opportunity here. It's not something that's in the curriculum already, but there's an opportunity here, right? And one example was there were a couple of lessons on baking bread, for example, and in my head I'm thinking, this is wonderful. I really love this. Could we do one that's similar, but we're talking about corncakes, for example, so we're going to shift the relative, the plant that we're talking about. But honestly, you wouldn't have to change too much because you're just really changing the input and then I guess the output to some degree. But again, it's like this is really amazing opportunity to provide context and build upon the already existing depth that IGI has developed in the curriculum.

Dinah: So just talking about curriculum, I want to ask two things. So the first thing is I'm wanting to ask, what are some ways that farm to school teams and schools can transcend land acknowledgements to go deeper for more authentic learning?

Brad: I think this has been something that's just been on my mind for a while. I remember when land acknowledgements became popular in the United States, and it was such a weird, interesting period of time because it was kind of like, oh, people care about us suddenly. Where'd this come from? What's the long-term intent of it, I suppose? And it's good. It's a good thing. I think the intention was always good. However, it doesn't always mean that the effects felt were good. And I think what has frustrated a lot of tribal nations, citizens from the tribal nations is that it can feel like a performative measure just to have a land acknowledgement. It's a statement that is read in some circumstances. And at the end of the day, I walk away from it as an indigenous person and you're like, well, nothing's changed. Maybe some people are more informed kind of, but again, nothing has really changed or adjusted in my own life, my lived experience or the lived experience of others around me.

And I think we have to transcend that and work towards actual relationality. And I've had the opportunity to do this with IGI. I'm doing it currently with a church on the island as well, and really about how do we take this intent and really intentionalize it in a way that's relational, in a way that's built around commitments and not just words, essentially well-meaning, accurate words, but what are we going to do about it? And I shouldn't say I used to because I still use this. Emily probably remembers it where I give the analogy, if I'm the teacher in the classroom and I take a student's water bottle away from them, I can stand in front of the classroom and say, I acknowledge that this is your water bottle. There's no action there. I don't give the water bottle back. I don't do anything. So it hasn't actually changed the circumstances, the system, it just acknowledges that it occurred, which is important, but if we also don't build an action step afterwards, then it becomes more performative than anything else. So again, I think it's really encouraging these organizations, these schools, you have to think about what is possible for your organization because it's going to change for every single organization. The stuff we're doing with the church right now doesn't look anything like what we did with IGI because they're two different entities, two different realities. And I think it's really important for farm to school, food sovereignty efforts, any really environmental food-focused organization to find ways to support food sovereignty efforts in tribal communities. And there's lots of different ways you can do this. I think sometimes people think if I transition from acknowledgement to commitments, I have gotten the occasional reaction of, "Oh, he's going to ask us to give all the land back." And I'm like, well, that'd be wonderful.

But no, it doesn't have to take on that form. It can take on something like IGI did where a plot has been, we're essentially using that plot now to grow food. And so that was a really amazing first step of IGI is going to commit to this. And I was just on a call before this where one of our staff members had gone down to check it out and her eyes kind of lit up and she's like, "It's eight times the size the other plot we have. " And so she was just thinking in her head, she's like, "This is great and I need some more hands." And I was like, yes, this is perfect though. Because to me it was such a clear evident thing of we went from acknowledgement to talking about commitments to doing commitments. And I was like, "That to me is relational, it's authentic, it's holistic, and in many ways reparative." 

Emily: From a farm to school perspective, I already see the work that we're doing pushing the boundaries. So we are pushing the boundaries about what is a food that a kid is willing to eat and what is a school lunch and where does learning happen? So we're already going into schools with this lens of broadening the horizons of kids' palettes and their ways that they're learning, and this work feels like it fits in with that. So who is at the table in our conversations and who is telling the stories? So for me, looking at our sources when we're using books, what is the imagery like on that book? And does it show indigenous people in the past or is it showing them in the present? So for me, a lot of this is just looking more critically at everything that we're presenting to students, making sure that there's indigenous voice in the lessons that we're teaching, making sure that the sources we use are authentic, making sure that the authors of the books that we're presenting to students have lived experience.

Dinah:  So Emily, from your farm to school work, the authentic nature of actually that work that you're doing is the counterbalance to a land acknowledgement that Island Grown might say or put out. You're actually doing that work that is related.

Emily: Yeah. And I feel like in the school, schools often use land acknowledgements as well, and there are indigenous topics in the curriculum. And so from my perspective, when we're going in, I want to make sure that the sources we're using are authentic, that we are bringing indigenous voice into the lessons that we're teaching. But I think that we have a responsibility as this group that comes in and we're trying to push the envelope on so many different topics within the school. We're trying to get kids to try new foods. We're trying to get kids out of school and learning in a project-based way. And so bringing in these authentic topics is a part of that from my perspective.

Dinah: So another area of the curriculum that I want to ask about is the Three Sisters Garden that so many school gardens build into their programs. Where does the Three Sisters tradition come from and how can school gardens get this right? Is it something that school gardens should attempt as well if they're not anchored in an authentic learning experience and what would make that authentic?

Brad: I can give you one good example too as well, where back in the day when there were a lot of our elders and scholars at the Plimoth Patuxet Museums, one of the key language shifts that they really made a focus on doing was shifting away from saying three sisters to companion planting because companion planting is practiced by most of the tribal nations I'm aware of here in the dawnland. I've seen Wabanaki cousins do it and Narragansett cousins, Nipmuc cousins, it's like everyone does it just scientifically smart to do. It's just strategic to do. And there's also a level of symbolism with the mound system and the way in which it is conducted.

And I'll share what I can to some degree. There's some stuff I won't share, but even at still point where we grew, we had 13 mounds and that's strategic. It's for 13 old moons and the way in which it kind of engages. Now, of course, I didn't plant anything in that garden, but that's also along the lines of our protocols. So again, if you're Wampanoag and you identify primarily as male, again, more of a spectrum of identity as opposed to a binary necessarily. But if you're more within that male area, your energy is not beneficial to an area of growth necessarily like that. You want life-giving energy. And so oftentimes your tasks usually involve weeding and stuff like that because that's not necessarily impacting those things. And so I think when we think about that story, I think it's important that indigenous identity is not understood as a monolith because I say to people, and maybe I got to find a better way of phrasing it, but I always say to people, I'm like, there are no Native Americans.

This is a concept that does not exist in totality until we are encountering Europeans for the first time. And so this concept erases the mass diversity amongst the 575 federally recognized tribes, the many state recognized tribes, which together have well over a thousand different reservation locations and landholdings across just the continental, well, across the United States. And we can be radically different. So that story is a primarily based in Haudenosaunee tradition. So if you're listening, you might also know the Haudenosaunee as the Iroquois. I tend to use Haudenosaunee because from what I know, it's more preferred, more appropriate. And so Haudenosaunee speakers come from an entirely different language family than us. So not only are we different, we're different from the Narragansett folks or Nipmuc folks, but we're talking about an entirely different language family too. I think it's important that folks do not appropriate stories and just place them wherever because they're a Native American story and it feels good.

I think it's okay to include the Three Sisters aspect, but what you want to do is contextualize it in a way of understanding that this is a form of companion planting that is practiced by Haudenosaunee people, and this is a story that is associated with it. And then the other thing that's kind of key there too, that I hope folks picked up on is when you are writing about these things, if it's in the past tense, check yourself because these things are still occurring and they will continue to occur. You want to never accidentally erase indigenous people by putting us in a past tense or using false or incorrect names. And so again, this is where collaboration and consent come into play. Again, big firm believer of nothing about us without us. And so if we're doing this kind of work, we should be doing it together.

So again, it just goes back to how do we ensure that where you're taking a place-based approach and when we don't take a place-based approach, that we're appropriate with our context and our knowledge too as well. I think that that's also something that folks should consider. If I were setting it up, it would almost be like a Wampanoag on companion planting systems if this is a document and it'd go on for a while about that. And then it would talk about how almost like a, have you heard of The Three Sisters clarifying its origins, intent section, kind of something like that. So I think it's just really important to honor the stories of these places first and foremost. And then when you include stories that come from other homelands to provide that context and connections.

Emily: And in our program, I want to add that we grow the corn that was grown in this region for a period of time. And so we talk about the story of that corn with students about what it's called currently, but who the corn was named after to add some of that local context. And we've had success using the book by Danielle Greendeer called Keepunumuk, which is more focused around the Thanksgiving story and less around the Three Sisters, but has elements of that companion planting concept. And as a Mashpee Wampanoag person, that brings that local context into the story for us and is a good jumping off point. So adding that local context that we can then build upon who are these plants, why do they grow well together? And then letting kids explore what is corn, how does corn grow? What are unique things about that seed?

What is squash? How does that grow? What does that seed look like? What are beans? What do they look like? What is the variety within beans? How do they grow? So using something with some local context as a jumping off point for them to get more of that technical garden-based knowledge with that bit of indigenous context.

Dinah: Thank you too for that really detailed and thoughtful response. I think that will be really helpful for people. So what are some ways that educators can review their own farm-to-school resources to make sure that they are not perpetuating inaccuracies and misconceptions?

Brad: I think doing what Emily did in many ways, where I think it takes going out and building the relationship, finding opportunities to have those touching points, build a relationship. And then I think it's about those next steps of intentional collaborative work together and really outlining what are our expectations too with this work. We've created a series of MOUs and those have been our guidelines in many ways. So I think it's important that folks build those relationships and then start to collaborate with folks in a way that's really meaningful and also works for them too as well. I think that that's also something to consider is you want to do it, but you also want to meet folks where they're at in terms of capacity and everything.

I think that those are some major things that come to mind. I also think for some folks that you might have to gain an understanding of who I should try to build a relationship with in the community. And I think that can be tricky sometimes because you have, in many circumstances, tribal governments, tribal organizations, and you also have tribal citizens. And we're all citizens of the tribe, but ultimately each one of us is acting in different capacities in those roles. So depending on how you go about it is going to change the circumstances in a couple different ways. If you're working with a tribal nation's government, you're working with another government.That's pretty big.

If you are working with a tribal organization, that's pretty big. Many tribal organizations are chartered by the tribe or have a close relationship with the tribe like the ACC does, for example. And so because of that, we're very much so a critical component of the tribal community, even though we're not directly tied to the government. And then tribal citizens are, again, really wonderful for doing this kind of work. I think what is critical to understand there though, because I've seen this a couple times, where I, as an individual, not in either of my professional roles, so I'm not representing the tribe or the ACC, have worked with a person on a project and then seen that project be described as I worked with the Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head Aquinnah, and that's just not true. You worked with a citizen of the tribe. And so I think it's important that people understand the differences there too as well, and really start to think about what are those ways that I can build relationships?

Are there events that I can go to that the organization or the tribe is running? When's their powwow? Things like that. Is there opportunities for me to be a part of donor events, things like that? Again, just be able to build that relationship because there is an inherent distrust in our communities for non-native institutions and organizations, and that's largely out of experience and to protect ourselves. So I think it's really important that there's trust building and we know that, this is going to sound just a little blunt maybe, but if you're coming to our powwow, I know that you're committed. I know that you're somebody that I'm going to inherently start to trust more in that process. And that's because you've taken the time to come down to Aquinnah, you've taken the time usually on a hot day to stand outside with us and be with us and community and to learn, and you're probably supporting tribal owned businesses and vendors there while you're there.

So to me, it's like, yeah, that's being in community. And so yeah, that's kind of what I think I would encourage. I encourage folks to do that curriculum audit, whether it's small or whether it's big. We started kind of big and now we're drilling down, but you can also do the opposite and just start small and then start to build up too as well. I think there's a variety of ways that you can approach it.

Emily: And this whole process has made me look more critically at all of our resources. So really understanding who authored whatever we're using in our programming and making sure that that indigenous voice is there. Really looking at the imagery that's on whatever we're presenting to students, does it depict indigenous people in the past or does it show them in the present? And this work is hard. And it's for me, as a white person, embarrassing often because I feel ashamed that I don't know this information, but also I feel sometimes embarrassed at mistakes that I've made. And it's really hard to unlearn old ideas. I grew up in the 90s, I was presented a very hurtful narrative about indigenous history, and I've been actively trying to unlearn that since high school and all through college.

And now in my adult life, it's work, it's extra work, but I feel like it's so important. And I have a 10-year-old, and so seeing him come home from school and hearing what he's telling me about what he's learning about the history of the place that we live in and the indigenous people here and just challenging him to think differently and then trying to find resources for him and then translating that into the programmatic work that I do. There is more diverse media now available out there. And it's really encouraging to me, especially as a child who grew up in the 90s.

There is great podcasts and books by people of color and indigenous people, and really making sure that those voices are what our students are hearing is so important to me and challenging these older ideas that we are holding onto either because you found a resource that works for you and you're just continuing to use it and you don't stop and take the time to really question it. But this process has really encouraged me to stop and take the time to question what we are using and making sure that indigenous people are represented in a more accurate way. Also, shout out to Brad. He recommended a book, Elements of Indigenous Style. Love that book. And I've been reading through it slowly and just it's more of a book geared towards writing and publishing, but it's helpful in thinking about how we're writing and talking about indigenous people in our curriculum. And so it's been helpful for me as I'm working on editing our curriculum to make sure that I'm using the correct terminology.

And I think as adults, we can sort of be entrenched in our ideas and our viewpoints of the world, but working with kids, I see that this other world is possible and that they're helping to build it and that they are more open in the way that they view the world. And it gives me so much hope that we are changing things. It's slow. It's that idea that we're planting these seeds and you don't know how long it will take for it to grow, but that they're helping us build this better world where everyone's included and where everyone's voice matters.

Dinah: So could you walk us through some of your ongoing collaborations that are really exciting to you both right now and also talk a little bit about the vision looking in the future? What's the vision of your collaboration?

Emily: Well, I'm super excited about challenging kids' ideas of what is a farm. I think we from media and also we live in a fairly rural community, we all have an idea of what is a farm. It's like the red barn with the cow and the white farmer. And so through my work, I like to encourage students to think about where you can grow food, who can grow food, and introduce them to these unique ways of foraging and farming and where you can farm, all of that. So I'm really excited about the food-based work that we're doing because we've been talking about one unit around ... We already talk a little bit about urban farming with students, but we should be bringing that native voice into that as well because with the Indian Relocation Act, there were a lot of people that were moved into cities. So thinking about how indigenous people have impacted that urban farming movement, thinking about shellfishing, which is huge where we are both, what's the word I'm looking for? Cultivated and wild. So thinking about how does that fit into this continuum of indigenous foraging practices and current day work within that shellfishing and thinking about maple sugaring, which we've been doing a little bit of out here. It's a really short window that we're able to do that, but that has these indigenous roots and how do we convey that to students? And then also how do we show them that that is still a resource that is being stewarded by native communities. So just really expanding students' ideas around the concept that native people are still here and that they're contributing to the food and farm space and that farms can look lots of different ways. And also growing food doesn't have to happen even on a traditional farm. It can happen in the forest, at the edge of the water, that there's these ways of collecting food that people have done for thousands of years.

Brad: Yeah, I think a lot of the stuff that we've talked about makes me really excited from the urbanization efforts and the creativity that I know is occurring in urban settings by indigenous people to grow food, to reimagine farm spaces, to reimagine those relational spaces. I also think syrup, maple sugar is something that is just wonderful, and so who doesn't want to learn more about that? So I'm really excited about that. I think there's some traditional stories as well that integrate into that, that can then be shared in a little bit more audiences too as well. The one that I'm really focused on right now is the 17th century Wapanoag Chopped cooking unit. And this is where essentially we're using this methodology of the Chopped cooking show and what you're doing it through the lens of some classic 17th century Wampanoag dishes and foods that are in many ways still incredibly important to us today.

And I think that that's one of the beautiful aspects of it is also sharing with students how oftentimes we are still eating these same things or integrating them into other dishes, new dishes that have changed over time too as well. Because again, the diet that our ancestors were consuming in the 1600s was very well balanced, very healthy, and really, again, supported that healthy lifestyle into our 80s and 90s more often than not. And I think this is an amazing opportunity to not only share that with students, but to have them hands-on engaging with the actual food itself. And also, one of the things Emily and I have talked about in the past is not creating opportunities to have bias confirmation in compare and contrast scenarios because sometimes I've talked a lot with my elder Linda Combs about this where sometimes what happens is the intent is you want the child to compare indigenous versus English or indigenous versus French or something like that.

For a lot of your students, I shouldn't say most, but I would imagine for a lot of your students, they already have a natural inclination towards Eurocentric things anyways. And so you're going to be working with kids that either have a Eurodescended background or have been in Westernized spaces for many, many years. And so more often than not, they're going to choose the thing that they're more comfortable with as opposed to the thing that they have less exposure to. And so I think it's really critically important that you are very thoughtful about the way that we do compare and contrast things. You do not want to accidentally reinforce notions of supremacy or bias or anything like that in that process. And so by doing something like this, you're just looking at Wampanoag dishes essentially. So again, it provides you this opportunity to cook them, try them essentially, and really not have that point there that might actually be a problem later or.

Dinah: I really look forward to hearing about this 17th century Chopped Cooking Show. And as you two develop this, and maybe when it's done, you could come back and share that with a Farm to School audience. It sounds really exciting. Is there anything that I did not ask you that you would like to share with listeners?

Emily: I think in general, what has made this possible and what's helped us take this leap is having someone to bounce all of this off of. And so I'm so grateful to Brad for the time that he's given us and lending his expertise. He's such a wealth of knowledge. Every time I have a conversation with him, I leave with a page of notes, and I know that's a lot of work, and I really just appreciate having your time and your knowledge to make our program stronger. And I just think about the kids that we work with and how they're getting exposure to these new ideas and how important that is to me and how grateful I am.

Brad: Oh, and I'm very grateful to you as well, Emily, to IGI as an organization. I think it's really shown me what is possible, what can be possible, what else could we work towards? And it's been very exciting, very hope building in many ways, and I think ultimately it's just going to benefit all kids across the island and probably elsewhere too now. So it's just been a gift to work with you all. And so if you're a listener and you're unfamiliar with Island Grown Initiative, you should check them out.

Dinah: Yeah. How can people learn more or get in touch with your organizations?

Brad: On our end, if you'd like to learn more about the Aquinnah Cultural Center, you should head to aquinnah.org. And on there, you can see more about our events. We have, for example, a yearly artisans festival that's always really lovely here in Equina where we have just our native artisans here, and it's usually in July, so keep an eye out for that. If you are thinking about the tribe itself, you should head to Wampanoag Tribe-NSN, Native Sovereign Nation is what that stands for .gov. And that's our tribal government website. You can find my information on the education webpage there. And on the ACC website, I'm somewhere on there, I think very similar type page, like education probably. So check out our organizations, check out the tribe. If you would like to come out to our powwow, it is usually right around or right after Labor Day every year.

So if you're on Cape, Mashpee always holds theirs 4th of July weekend. Highly recommend folks go, check it out, try some food, all that good jazz. So reach out. Would love to hear from folks.

Emily: And you can follow Island Grown Initiative on Instagram. We're pretty active in that space posting about what we're up to. Our website also is igimv.org. It'll share some more information about our programs, which are fairly expansive on the island and more specifically about Island Grown Schools if you want to learn about our farm to school work.

Dinah: Emily, on your Island Grown website, is there access, public access to some of your lesson plans?

Emily: Thank you for asking that. I did mean to say that and realized I'd forgotten to say it. When you go to the IGIMV website, you can click on Island Grown Schools and it'll take you to an external website where we have a collection of recipes we've used with students, as well as a curriculum toolkit that has over 200 lessons in it that we've used in our preschool through high school programming, and we are constantly updating it and adding more lessons, and those are all free for people to use and tied to the state teaching frameworks.

Dinah: Great. Thank you. Thank you both so much for taking the time to talk to me. This was a really expansive conversation and it's given me a lot to think about and stopped me in my tracks a little bit after you shared some things that you have my mind kind of reeling and I really appreciate the time. And I think this is going to help a lot of people think about how to go about building relationships that are authentic and how to start making changes that recognize native sovereignty and support learning about present day, present day native peoples and just reframing, I think, what people have traditionally done in their farm to school work. So really thank you. I really appreciate it.

Emily: Thanks, Dinah.

Brad: Thank you.

This podcast is a production of the Northeast Farm to School Collaborative. For more information about this podcast or farm to school in the northeast go to northeastfarmtoschool.org